[RWS #730] Real Estate Empire: Rod Khleif’s Rags-to-Riches Story

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If you’re a podcast fan, then you’ve probably heard of today’s guest.

Rod Khleif has personally owned and managed over 2000 properties and has  built over 23 businesses in a 40 year business career.

And while that is all quite impressive, he came from very humble beginnings as an impoverished, young Dutch immigrant, and created incredible success in what he calls a rags-to-riches-to-rags-to-riches story,

He has built several successful multi-million dollar businesses. But ask him what he is most proud of, and he will tell you about his work as a community philanthropist. 

Giving back to the community is a major passion for Rod. He is founder and long-serving president of the Tiny Hands Foundation which helps children from low income families.

And today, he’s back with us on the Real Wealth Show.

Podcast Transcript

Kathy Fettke: Rod Khleif, welcome back to the Real Wealth Show.

Rod Khleif: It is so freaking exciting to be here, Kathy, because I think the world of you and I’m so excited to be back on your show and let’s have some fun today.

Motivated by Mom’s Real Estate Bonanza

Kathy: I just want to get to know you a little bit better. How did you get started being so motivational?

Rod: I’m going to go back a long way because it’ll pre-frame this conversation. Humor me for a minute. I immigrated this country when I was six years old with my mother Avantia and my brother Albert. We came across on a big ship I remember. My only memory is my mom crying when she saw the Statue of Liberty when we got into New York Harbor. I was six years old. Ended up in Denver, Colorado where we lived for the next 30 years. I lived for the next 30 years. We didn’t have much. I wore clothes from the Goodwill and the Salvation Army all the way through junior high school until I got a job and could buy my own clothes. We ate expired food.

I remember going to the day-old bread store because it was half-price and powdered milk because my mom thought milk was healthy. I know there are probably people listening to your show that had it harder than we did. I knew I wanted more. Luckily, my mom had an incredible work ethic. She babysat kids so that we’d have enough money to eat. With her babysitting money when I was 14, she got into real estate. She bought the house across the street from our neighbors for $30,000 approximately. When I turned 17, I was getting close to graduating from high school, she told me it had gone up $20,000 in her sleep. I’m like, “What? I’m getting into real estate. You didn’t do anything to make that money?”

I got into real estate right when I turned 18. I actually got my real estate broker’s license right when I turned 18, which you could do with education back then. They got smart. Now, you actually have to have some experience before you become a broker. I was a broker when I turned 18 and I was going to be rich in real estate. My first year in real estate, I made about eight grand, maybe eight or nine grand. My second year, 10, 11 grand, something like that but my third year, I made over $100,000.

 Kathy: Oh my God.

Rod: Which back in 1981 was not a bad chunk of change for a 21-year-old. What happened between year two and year three? What happened ties into motivation and mindset. I met a guy that taught me. I worked with him for a while, but I met him and he taught me that psychology and mindset is really 80 to 90% of your success in anything. It’s your attitude, it’s your ability to take action and not be limited by fear and limiting beliefs and that’s what it was. I met this guy and he taught me about mindset. Fast forward to today, I’ve owned over 2,000 houses that I rented long-term. I have owned multiple apartment complexes in three States and in 2006, my net worth went up $17 million while I slept.

“I Thought I Was a Real Estate God”

A little more than my mom’s 20 grand but there’s a punchline. When that happens, by the way, Kathy, somebody has that kind of a year. If you do the math on it, it’s over $8,000 an hour and of course, I did. I got a head so big I could barely fit it through the doorway because I thought I was a real estate god. I made $17 million and I didn’t do anything. When that happens, God or the universe or whatever you believe will give you a smack down. That was 2008 for me. I lost that 17 million and a whole lot more. I lost $50 million in 2008.

I thought I was set for life. I thought 80 million baby boomers moving, they were getting older and getting colder and would make Florida recession-proof.

Little did I know it was ground zero for the recession. That, and California where you live and of course, in Vegas. One of the things that I talk about is the mindset that it took to have 50 million to lose in the first place and then what it took to actually recover from that and to get back to the success that I enjoy today. We’ve bought a thousand units this year so far. How did I give back? Do you want me to chat about that for a minute?

Learning About Real Estate Cycles

Kathy: Absolutely, but before we do, I’m just super curious and I know that our audience probably is too. Here we are 10 years later. Are you afraid that it could happen again?

Rod: I don’t think it’s going to happen like 2008 if you ask me. Real estate goes through cycles. I’ve been through several of them in my lifetime. I’ll give you an example. Back in the late ’80s, I had flipped some houses. There was a house, I remember the address, 3351 West 30th Avenue in North Denver. I had bought this house for about 56,000. I fixed it up and flipped it in for about 76,000. Then the market crashed. I bought that same house back for $18,000. Then three or four years later, I sold it for 160. Now it’s worth probably half a million or more. Real estate goes through cycles. I’ve been through several of them. Some have been more painful than others.

Yes, I believe we’re going to have a pullback. I do believe there’s irrational exuberance happening right now in the marketplace. We put lots of letters of intent, LOIs out on multifamily properties and sometimes I’m scratching my head going, “What are they thinking, what they’re paying for that property? There’s no way they’re going to meet the returns for their investors. They could very well end up losing.” A lot of people are out there using bridge debt which is the multifamily equivalent of hard money. Those of you in the single-family space know what hard money is. You borrow it from a person, you pay a high-interest rate and points.

Bridges loans are the commercial multifamily equivalent of it. There are a lot of people I think that are positioning themselves for some hurt. That’s my opinion. Yes, I do think we are going to have a pullback. Who knows when it’s going to happen? Who knows what impact Trump will have on it and the election will have on it? Let’s not go down that rabbit hole.

Kathy: How are you positioning yourself knowing what you know and having gone through what you’ve gone through and seeing all these crazy, crazy proformas out there that make no sense? Ken McElroy was on this show too. He said the same thing. He sold the bottom 10% of his portfolio, the least under-performing. He listed them for the highest price. He got them, he got what he wanted. There were multiple offers and same thing. He’s scratching his head going, “How are they going to make any money?” He’s like, “I’ve already pushed it. I pushed rents as far as they can go. I’ve already renovated. What are they going to do?” How are you not doing that?

The Importance of “Stress-Testing” Your Deals

Rod: Good question. I will tell you. We are kissing about 200 frogs to find a deal right now. We have a LOIs out on 11 properties. Now, let me say this. I am in a unique position that I have over 300 students in my Warrior Program. They send us deals out of those thousand doors we bought this year, probably three-fourths of those now, a little over half of those were from students. I’m in a unique position to see a lot of deals, but we are very, very conservative. That’s why we’re passing on so many deals. I was just talking to my partner Robert this morning in the middle of my jog about the fact that it’s frustrating that we don’t have anything under contract right now.

We both realize that there’s stupid stuff happening. We’re always near the top 10% but then people come in and they pay more than we can imagine. Here’s what we’re doing now. We stress-test every deal. For example, let me give you some examples of that. These are really simple. One of them is if the property won’t cash flow, break-even at 25% vacant, day one for us, we won’t buy it. That’s number one. Number two in our proforma, if the property doesn’t break even at 35% vacant in five years, we won’t do the deal. I was mentioning this to you I think before we started recording, we did a deal in Dallas at 65% loan to value and still had — we’re looking at a 10% cash-on-cash return over the five-year period annualized and in the 20s for the internal rate of return. That’s very, very conservative.

I’ll give you another example. We had a deal in Beaver Creek, Ohio. Regretfully, this property just got destroyed by a tornado. Thank God nobody died and no children were injured, but all 101 families had to move. This particular property, we’re going to have rent increases of $500. To do the math on that at a six cap, and this’ll be an A asset. It’s probably going to be a five cap, but even at a six cap, that’s a $10 million increase in value. I don’t think we have a single property that we’re not going to get about $180 to $200-plus in rent increase.

I’ll give you one more example. We bought a property in Shreveport, Louisiana. Not a market I would normally buy in, but this property, the seller paid 20 million, 10 years ago. We paid 16.5 about four or five months ago. Now, why did we get it cheap? Because it was 70% occupied. Which is a massive red flag, but then we went there and looked at it, we’re like, “This is obvious. This is the most horribly managed asset I’ve seen in a long time.” It was head-scratching stupid on the management. In the property next door, it was 100% occupied. It wasn’t the market, it was the management. They’d run this thing into the ground.

Without even raising the rents, all we have to do is get it up to 90% occupied if we’ve overnight increased the value of about $8 million. Just by getting the occupancy up, which is why we love this freaking business. That’s why we love commercial multifamily. Now the other thing we do besides stress testing — and I went off on a tangent there. The other thing we do is we have big operating reserves. Like on that Shreveport property, we’ve got $1 million in the bank just in case. On the Dallas property, which was 90 — It’s been tracking about 100% occupied. It was 95 when we’re 96 when we bought it. We’ve got a half a million in the bank on that property.

It’s not just the stress testing to be safe. It’s also big deep pockets, just in case. If we have a hurdle, we like to have at least six months of operating reserve in the bank. I don’t know if that answered your question, but that’s how we do it.

Creating the Magnificent Life of Your Dreams

Kathy: Incredible. That’s what we do too. If we’re going to do any deals moving forward, there are deals out there. They’re harder to find but you have got to have your underwriting criteria in place and not stray from it.

Rod: Absolutely stick with it. Back to my comment about, the mindset that it took to recover and to get there in the first place. The way I was able to have 50 million to lose in the first place. Then to recover from losing it, was knowing exactly what I want and more importantly why I want it. We do a goal-setting workshop, but unlike your average sit down, write down a few goals and forget about them after a month– If you’re listening and you have the ability to take a couple of notes. Let me take two minutes, Kathy if you’ll humor me and just walk through at a high level what we do in an hour. I think it’ll really add value to your listeners. If it’s okay, I’ll do that.

Kathy: Absolutely.

Rod: Guys, what you do is you pick an hour when you have a lot of energy. Don’t do it after a meal. Make sure you’re well-hydrated and sit down and write down everything you could ever possibly want in life. All the stuff, start with the stuff, the houses, the boats, the cars, the jet skis, the planes, and whatever it is. Now listen, it’s really important that you don’t limit yourself. Take the lid off your brain. You are only limited by your own thoughts. If there’s something that just seems almost unthinkable for you to get, write it down anyway. What that does is, starts the process. Just simply writing down your goals, trigger something in your mind.

Writing Down Your Goals

It’s this filter in your brain called the reticular activating system. What that is, is it’s that filter that filters out all the noise, so that it subconsciously helps you hone in on what it thinks is most important to you. The greatest example of that, that I can think of is, when you first buy a car, you never really noticed that vehicle that much. But when you buy them, you see them everywhere. Were they there before? Of course, they were. That’s your reticular activating system at work. By writing your goals down, it starts that process. Now, you want to write down how much money you want in the bank in a few years, how much you want in 10 years.

You want to write down things like what you want in cash flow in a few years, say three years and what you want in 10 years. Again, don’t limit yourself. People, Kathy, spend more time planning Christmas or a birthday party than they do designing their lives. This is a part of designing your life. Just keep writing. If you’re an analytical person, don’t stop to analyze it. Just keep writing. Don’t let the pen leave the paper. You can always scratch it out later. Just free flow with everything you could ever possibly want. Then when you can’t think of another thing, write down what you want to learn in this lifetime.

Me, I’m going to learn how to play the drums. I’m going to learn how to fly a helicopter. Those are my things. What do you want to learn? Maybe a foreign language. Maybe multifamily real estate. Maybe real estate in general, whatever it is. Write it down. Then also write down who you want to help. Who may be family, maybe friends, who do you want to help? I bought my parents a house here on a canal in Florida. I bought them a car, took them on cruises. Who do you want to do something for? Write it down, everything you want to do, be or have. Now, once you can’t think of another thing, then now you’ve got a bunch of dreams on your piece of paper.

Setting Time Limits to Reach Your Goals

They become real goals and outcomes when they’re measurable. I want you to put a time limit on each goal. Put a number by each goal, how many years it’s going to take you to achieve it? Put a one, a three, a five, even a 10, even a 20 for that matter. Recognizing that as human beings, we might overestimate what we can accomplish in a year, but we massively underestimate what we can do in a decade or 20 years. I’ll give you an example. When I was 18, I lived in Denver. I knew I wanted to live on the beach and there was no beach in Denver. I visualized, I had palm trees, I love seeing palm trees and pictures of the beach.

I ended up building an $8 million 10,000 square-foot mansion on the beach here in Sarasota where I own the beach on one side it was called a Gulf to Bay. On the backside, I had my boat lifts and a boathouse. It was unthinkable when I was 18. Again, don’t be limited. If you can imagine it, you can create it. Write it down, put a time limit on each goal. All right, now there are just a couple more quick steps. I want you to look at that list and pick your number one goal. I mean that goal when to get it, you’re like, “Oh my God, this is amazing.” That goal. Pick that one. Write it on a separate sheet of paper.

Prioritizing Your Goals

Now if there’s two or three that are equally exciting, just pick one. It won’t matter what we’re doing next. Now, I also want you to pick your top three one year goals. Put those on another piece of paper. Now you’ve got four of your goals written on a piece of paper. The goals are very important. The goals will propel you and push you and pull you and make you take action. What really gets the lead out and get you to push through fear and get uncomfortable is — and by the way, you need to be a little bit uncomfortable to achieve anything in this world.

That magnificent life of your dreams is right on the other side of some discomfort. What makes that happen is knowing why your goals are an absolute freaking must. You need to write a paragraph for each goal. Why it’s an absolute must for you to achieve it. Things like, I can show my spouse what success looks like so that we can live the life of our dreams. I can show my children what success looks like so we can go do whatever we want, wherever we want. Bring whoever we want, do it whenever we want. Whatever it is for you, write that down and use emotionally charged words. Words are incredibly powerful.

Using Motivational Adjectives

Use words like amazing, incredible and unbelievable, magnificent because words will move you. Write a positive reason why for each one of those goals, it’s an absolute must. Then the last piece there is you’ve got to put some pain in there. If you don’t achieve the goal, put some pain if you don’t achieve it. Things like, If I don’t reach this goal, I don’t feel like a failure. I don’t live a life of regret. I don’t fail my children. I don’t fail my spouse. I know that sounds tough, but people will do more to avoid pain than gain pleasure.

This is the fuel guys. This is what gets you out of bed early in the morning and get you to stay up late at night. Get you back up when you get your butt kicked, which you inevitably will. You’re going to get your nose bloodied. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. If you know exactly what you want and why you want it– This is what got me out from underneath the rock after a couple of months of my pity party in 2008, 2009. To get back up and make it happen again. Guys, it’s not just knowing what you want with crystal clarity. That’s why you should do this, by the way.

Revise and Update Your Goals

I recommend you write your goals down regularly and you rethink them at least quarterly because they will evolve and they’ll become more clear. Clarity is power. The more clear they are, the faster they’re going to come into your life. It’s the wise that will really propel you. We’re done with this. Last piece, you must get pictures of your goals. Let me tell you why. I’ll give you a public example since you’re in California. A great example, Jim Carrey wrote himself a check for $10 million when he was flat broke. He used to carry it in his wallet. He’d go by the Hollywood sign and he’d look at it. He’d visualize cashing it. That’s how much money he made for Dumb and Dumber.

Olympic athletes, they all know– The Russians started this, but they all do it now. Every one of them visualizes the race and its entirety before they run it. It’s been proven to enhance performance. I’ll give you my personal examples. When I was 18, I got my real estate broker’s license. I was going to get rich and sell other people houses. I got a four-door car. I got this Ford four-door Granada, the ugliest freaking thing you ever saw in your life. Bench seats in the front. Gray, just hideous. I figured I had to have a four-door because I was going to be rich and be a real estate broker.

Well, I worked with a guy that had a couple of Corvettes. He let me drive one. That’s a key piece as well. If there’s something that you want, experience it, test, drive the car, go to the open house of the house you want. Try to immerse yourself in the experience of it as much as you possibly can. I got a picture of a Corvette out of a magazine. This is before, the internet had even been thought of yet. I got it out of a magazine and I taped it to the visor of my four-door, this bone, ugly Granada. Every time I got in, I could see it right there at the bottom of my visor. Within a year or two I had a beautiful Corvette. I want to give you a couple more examples, but I want to pre-frame this by saying this is not me bragging because these things don’t even interest me anymore. They’re really great for illustrative purposes. This is back when the TV show Magnum, P.I. was out. Actor’s name was Tom Selleck and he drove this Ferrari 308. I thought that was the coolest thing I’d ever seen. I got a picture of that actual car out of a magazine and put it on the visor of my Corvette.

Within a couple of years, I had Maserati, it looked just like it. Last example, car example again. I’m the guy that always wanted a Lamborghini. I had the posters on my bedroom wall of the Lamborghini. It was the Countach, it was the model back then. Lamborghini Countach with the bikini girls and all of that. I had all that in my bedroom when I was growing up.

What’s interesting is when my son was about eight or nine years old, he collected models of exotic cars. He had 30 or 40 of them. I still have this model. He had a model of the exact same color and style Lamborghini that I ended up buying, which ultimately wrecked.

Kathy: You ended up with a gorgeous bikini girl wife.

Rod: Yes, I did. Yes, she is. It’s really funny on that note. If you Google my name, how Google auto-populate behind your name. The most search term is Rod Khleif’s wife.


Kathy: You know what mine is? Kathy Fettke daughters. [laughs]

Rod: No kidding. That’s hilarious.

Kathy: Because they’re pretty cute.

Turn Your Goals Into Visual Images

Rod: Awesome. That’s funny. Anyway, guys, the pictures work. I’ve got a planner. If we were doing this on video, I could show you in the back of this thing I’ve got pictures that have been here 20 years. Then they’re in plastic. I’m looking at them right now. The first picture are my gratitude pictures. That’s a really important piece guys. If you’re going to do vision boards or have pictures, make sure you’ve got gratitude pictures because it’s foundational. Everything starts from that foundation of gratitude. I’ve got pictures of my kids when they’re very young. These pictures have been in here for 20 years in the back of this planner. I’m a dinosaur. I use a paper planner. It’s FranklinCovey, it used to be Daytimer.

Kathy: Oh my Gosh. You’re still using a FranklinCovey. I’m impressed.

Rod: I love it. I just like to hand-write what I’m going to do. I use Outlook and all that crap too but I like this planner. In this, I’ve got pictures of houses that I thought I wanted. What’s crazy is the pictures look just like the house that I built on the beach. Now, on the same page, there’s pictures, they look just like the compound that I live in now. I live in this incredible compound. I’ve got six buildings, I’ve got a giant main house. I’ve got, lay down West, five cars of garages in two separate garages. I’ve got a media building with a video studio and a theater room. I’ve got an exercise facility. I’ve got a two-bedroom guest house on the water. It’s just spectacular.

Because God’s got a sense of humor, I can see that big house I was talking about that I built on the beach that I lost across the bay. It’s literally right at my back.

Kathy: Oh my gosh. That’s amazing. [laughs]

Rod: Then I’ve got pictures of these other things that I wanted, the Lamborghini before I ever got it, the Rolls Royce, all this stuff that I got because I had pictures. Guys don’t underestimate the power of — If you looked around my office now, you’d see pictures of the things that mattered to me now. I’ve got vision boards and I use them regularly because visualization works guys. I know I lost a few of the analytical ones on this, but I’m telling you, to your peril because this stuff absolutely works.

Kathy: It definitely works. I want to have an event where we just do that. We just cut out pictures.

Rod: I love it.

Kathy: It’s how I found my husband. I wrote down in complete detail every single thing. It was a full page of everything I wanted and I met him about two months later. I check off every box he fit every single one.

Rod: That is so funny you said. I teach my students the exact same thing. I did before I met Tiffy, I have eight pages. Every single emotion I was looking for, every quality I was looking for, the things that I wasn’t looking for. No, actually I didn’t put what I wasn’t looking for because you’d never want to put because-

Kathy: You don’t want to attract that.

Rod: You want to attract what you want. That’s so funny you say that because I did the exact same thing. The minute I met her, I knew it was her. It was so clear in my head. Funny. That’s crazy.

Sharing Your Good Fortune

Kathy: I want to ask you a question I bet you haven’t been asked before. It’s an interesting balancing act of believing. It’s almost like you have to inflate, not the ego, but you’ve got to really puff up to have the energy to go after dreams, especially when you’ve been knocked down but then at the same time, you’ve got to stay humble because that can get in your way too. How do you balance this dream with humility so that you don’t get knocked down again?

Rod: That is such a great question because you see some of these people, I’ll use Trump as an example, just because he came to mind. Some of the luminaries that are out there, there’s so much ego. At least it looks like ego. It could just be confidence, but it looks like ego even from someone like me. I will tell you I think sometimes I even downplay my successes just because I don’t want to be that guy. It is such a balancing act because I want to be authentic. I do my three-day live events. Let me just say this. I did my first event. It was 50 people in Sarasota here. I did it for free just to see if I’d like it. It was a one-day event. I did it in a jacket and these black shiny shoes. I was freaking miserable the whole day. Miserable.

Now, I do my three-day events in jeans, a black v-neck t-shirt, and flip flops. People just crack up. It’s who I am. I like nice things. I love to travel. I still have pretty amazing cars and stuff, but the point is, it is a balancing act and I don’t want to be that. I could name so many names. I’m not going to do that, of people I’ve had on my show, even that are like, “I don’t want to be,” because they’re so full of themselves. In fact, let me share a story with you, Kathy because it ties into this. It ties into goals as well. This is perfect. I built that house on the beach. This 10,000 square-foot, incredible home. Let me describe it. It had a spiral staircase up through the middle elevator, of course, wine cellar.

There was a giant waterfall from the second-floor balcony into the pool. There was enough foliage and trees. I spent 20, 30 grand on trees. It lifted, that went out over the pool. You had to walk through the waterfall to get in the pool. On the second floor, there was an aquarium that went around the staircase. The aquarium was almost 200 grand.

Kathy: Oh my God. Extravagant.

Rod: I’d worked on this thing for 20 years. Two months after I built it, I’m in the pool at night. Two months after I built it. I’m in the pool exchanging colors at night because it’s got fiber optic lighting and the waterfalls are going. From my spa and at the pool were two waterfalls. I’m looking up at this testament to my ego, which is really what it was. It was to prove to the world I was good enough. It was to prove the world I mattered. That’s what I’d focused on was proving my worth. That’s the truth.

Kathy: Proving your worth through your net worth.

Rod: I was proving myself because society makes people, especially men feel that they need to do that but for me, there were a lot of childhood things that contributed to this. That’s the truth of it. I had been totally focused on me. I’m looking up at this testament to my ego. Two months after I built it and I got depressed. I really got depressed. It wasn’t just like bummed out. I was really bummed out. I’m like, “What the hell? How could I be bummed out? I’ve achieved success by a thousand X what society expects and I’m feeling bad.” I went out and bought some books. One of them was Tony Robbin’s book.

I’m blessed to say I’ve spent 20 years following him around the planet because his technology is fantastic. I went to his event. This is 20 years ago. I saw that he fed families for the holidays. Again, I had been totally focused on Rod. I’m like, “That’s really cool.” I think he’s done I know tens of millions of people fed in through his charity. I come home and I decided to feed five families and my brother and I. We called a church, we said, “Who really needs help?” This was for Thanksgiving. What’s cool is we’re about to do this again in two weeks here with my Mastermind. We’re going to do the Saturday after the Mastermind and feed I think 1500 families.

The point is I fed five families that year and I’m getting ahead of myself. The third family changed my life. We go up to this house and it was a shotgun house. I don’t know if you haven’t bought any really old properties, you’re listening, you wouldn’t know what this means. What it means is you walk into the living room, you have to walk through the bedroom to get to the kitchen and then the bathroom’s off the kitchen. It’s a one-bedroom but it’s a crappy one-bedroom because you got to walk through the bedroom to get to the kitchen.

In this place was the lady with five kids. I bought toys for the kids, bought a frozen turkey, a big box of food. Now we put it in baskets. She came out and she saw the food and she started crying. Her kids came out, a couple of them started crying. I started crying. I was hooked. I’m blessed to say in the last 20 years, we have fed 70,000 children for the holidays. We’ve done probably pushing 20,000 backpacks full with school supplies, tens of thousands of teddy bears to local police departments for their officers to keep in their car if they encounter a child that’s been traumatized.

“Greatest Gift in Life”

You asked me and it’s been my greatest gift in life. It’s added a richness to my life. Let me say this to those of you listening that I know if you’re listening to Kathy, you want financial success. I’m here to tell you that financial success without that component is not success. I’ve interviewed guys on my show that are extremely wealthy, that I recognize are exactly like I was back then when I built that house. Totally focused on themselves. Narcissistic, not giving back in any way and guys, that’s not success. I don’t care how many millions you’ve got, that’s not success. If you’re listening, and you’re thinking, “Well, that sounds great, and when I have a lot of money, I’ll give back,” that’s the wrong answer. You need to start giving back now. I don’t care if you adopt one family, you help one child, you do something that you’re passionate about, it doesn’t matter what it is. If it makes you almost tear up, when you’re doing it, that’s it.

It can be the environment, it can be animals, it can be children, it can be the elderly, whatever it is, find something and stand for something that’s bigger than you are. Otherwise, it’s not success. I will tell you, when you do that, even if you’re not where you want to be financially, it will enhance and increase your speed to that success.

Kathy: A 100%. It will. We were giving away all of our educational modules for $10 a month with all of the $10 going to charity. Well, I thought it would be but we still had pushback from people who didn’t want to — They didn’t, I guess see the value in giving that.

Rob: What’s sad is you see these people and they’re older in some cases. They’re in their 50s, 60s and they still haven’t got the memo. Everything in this universe has to contribute, or frankly, it’s eliminated. Anything on this earth and that’s alive, if it doesn’t contribute to the whole in some fashion, gets eliminated, humans are no different. It’s a basic human need to contribute beyond ourselves. It’s something I’m very passionate about. By the way, I forgot to mention the other piece. When I was really depressed, there was another piece that I forgot to mention.

That is the other piece besides the fact that I was successful, but I was unfulfilled. Tony Robbins calls it the science of achievement versus the art of fulfillment because achievement as a science fulfillment is an art. The other piece was, I’d reached this major goal and I didn’t have any other goals lined up behind it. Like the Good Book says, “Without a vision, the people perish.” You got to have a vision for the future. Guys, be very careful if you’re about to achieve a big goal, make sure you’ve got other goals lined up behind it because otherwise, you are going to go through what I went through and really be unhappy or uncomfortable because you have to have a vision for the future.

Kathy: Absolutely. Again, I’ll say what I see a lot out there is a lot of people bragging about the number of doors they own, the number of properties they own and what I want to hear people bragging about is what they’re doing with their lives that brings them happiness.

Rob: Love it. That’s a great question. So many people aren’t in tune to their happiness. It’s such a simple answer, Kathy. If you want to be happy, spread happiness, you want love, spread love, whatever you give you get. Same thing with money. Frankly, you want money, give money, give up your time, give of yourself because it comes back to a 100-fold, do you agree?

Kathy: A 100%. Absolutely. It basically opens the nozzle.

Rob: Yes, no question.

Kathy: It just comes flowing. You’ve got to be able to give to get. Absolutely. I agree.

Rob: I love it.

Kathy: You have given so much. Thank you.

Rob: No, thank you. It’s such a treat.

Kathy: So good to have you here and I really look forward to seeing you in January.

Rob: Likewise, let’s talk soon, Kathy. Thank you.

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